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Confessions of a Social Justice Pastor
Hollywood Adventist Church in Hollywood, California has been named "Innovative Church of the Year" by the Church Resource Center of the North American Division. Spectrum probed behind the basic questions of what makes Hollywood Church so innovative, asking Hollywood pastor Ryan Bell about the value of innovation itself and about his own personal spiritual journey.
RD: Hollywood was recognized as the “2010 Innovative Church of the Year” during the recent Conference on Innovation in Columbus, Ohio. Congratulations! How did it happen?
RB: Since it requires someone with a very detailed working knowledge of a church to fill out the application, churches nominate themselves for the award. One of our leaders answered all the questions about what makes our church innovative, and an independent committee picked us from among the applicants.
RD: Just a quick glance at your website reveals that all sorts of out-of-the-box activities are happening at Hollywood. What do you think is most innovative about your church?
RB: Our church really values diversity. Obviously we value diversity in the immediate ways that come to mind like ethnic and racial diversity, gender and age diversity. But we are also spiritually diverse. There’s a young man who’s a regular part of our church these days who’s a self-confessed atheist. But he’s there. And there’s another guy who’s a Buddhist who comes to church with his girlfriend who grew up Adventist. We’ve got recovering Evangelicals of various types who aren’t Adventist—at least not yet. We’ve got very traditional Adventists who worry that we are not Adventist enough and who do that worrying in very constructive, conversational ways.
Probably what’s most innovative about our church is the process of innovation itself that we’ve tried to foster. We are not quick to solve the perceived problems of our church but use those perceived problems to create conversations about the role of our church in the community. We try not to rush toward answers that we think we know, but to create a space of unknowing in which people can do more thinking and research. We pray and dwell in scripture believing that God will do something fresh through that process.
RD: I remember you telling a story once along those lines. When you came to your church someone asked you, “What are we going to do, pastor?” And you said, “I don’t know.” It was a bit shocking for your church at the time! How practically have you led your congregation into spaces of waiting and unknowing? What’s your “methodology of innovation,” if you please?
RB: We have tried to place a premium on conversation. We’ve discerned that God is present in our conversation in a way that he is not present when we’re alone or making proclamations. So in terms of an intentional strategy, we’ve tried to gather people in groups around particular challenges that we sense in the church. We’ve used survey instruments and approaches like appreciative inquiry and scripture meditation in various configurations during church boards, business meetings, elders meetings, etc. So take the problem of homelessness, for instance. We noticed that we had a big homeless community around our church. The obvious question was “What shall we do?” You can imagine what almost any church might quickly say: “Lets have a soup kitchen and clothing distribution site. We know how to do that.” And my response is, “You may be right. In fact there’s a good chance you’re right that this is what we need to do. But before we jump to that conclusion, can we spend the next two or three months in scripture and in community with people who care about the same things we care about? Lets do some research in our neighborhood, find out what’s going on, ask God what he’s up to before we start processing a response.”
RD: Can you give me a quick run-down of some of the very specific things Hollywood has been involved with that might be considered “innovative”?
RB: Sure.
As a branch of our peace and justice ministry, One Mile Mission is an effort to take responsibility for the general health and well being of every person within a one-mile radius of our church.
Hollywood 4WRD is a coalition of leaders from the Hollywood Community that have adopted a ten-year plan to end homelessness in Hollywood. We’ve been offered a seat at these meetings.
Imagine LA helps congregations mentor families coming out of homelessness. We have partnered with a family through Imagine LA, offering life skills mentoring and tutoring for their children.
We have our own media ministry, New Name Pictures, which produces short creative films. One of our films, “Social Justice Christian” was recognized recently by Sojourners and The Huffington Post. It can be viewed online at www.faithforjustice.org.
Just Hollywood is the non-profit organization our church established in order to facilitate grant funding for healthy community development initiatives.
Concrete Voices is a new podcast series we have initiated that seeks to tell the unknown stories of people on the streets of LA.
We host weekly Hollywood Community Walks that gather church members and non-church members together in a common quest to understand and serve the neighborhoods in which we live.
Weekly Creative Workshops at Hollywood give local artists the chance to stretch and explore their talents in a safe space.
We are also involved with community gardening and health education efforts in and around the city. We have created partnerships with ten external organizations throughout LA, and the Hollywood United Neighborhood Council has added a standing place on their agenda to hear reports about our church activities.
Finally, our congregation is a part of LA Voice, a local, faith-based, community organization seeking to improve our communities through social change. We have partnered with churches, synagogues and mosques to address problems like affordable housing, housing for the homeless, solutions to the foreclosure crisis and more.
RD: Your approach to ministry—to Adventism—has not always been so “justice” based. Can you share with us your own faith journey and how you became the person and pastor you are now?
RB: My family became Adventist when I was six or seven and their baptism in the Loma Linda University Church had a big influence on me. I was baptized when I was nine in what is now the Riverside Community Church, but shortly before that baptism, my parents divorced. And shortly after my baptism, my brother and I moved with our mom and step-dad to southern Oregon where we didn’t really go to church and where we lived in pretty extreme poverty. I had an inner longing for God at that time, but no way to support my faith.
During my high school years I moved in with my grandparents who were very faithful, traditional Adventists, and I was drawn to their faith. I took on a very conservative orientation so that when I went to PUC as a freshman I got in with a group of friends who were tracking with all John Osborn’s “Prophecy Countdown” videos detailing the evil nature of celebration churches and condemning a certain style of music. We were also good supporters of Hope International and their publication, Our Firm Foundation. I was always a little dismayed by the militant nature of the conservative movement, but I was ideologically aligned. I was very much in the middle of all the theological debates like the nature of Christ, always championing for the conservative side.
At the time, my grandparents were volunteers at Weimar and they traveled the country in a trailer teaching NEWSTART in churches on weekends. They invested a ton of their own personal financial resources into their activities and they were very effective. Since my grandparents knew everyone at Weimar, I decided to transfer there during my junior year, and between my junior and senior years I signed up for a stint of mission service in the Philippines. I wasn’t able to finish it due to some problems that developed, so after about six or eight months I came back to serve at the Covelo Church in the Northern California Conference, where Doug Batchelor was the pastor. That would have been in 1993. I did some ministry alongside Doug when he came back to town from where he was doing an evangelistic series in Redding. I spent time at his home in Covelo; I took his kids backpacking.
It was during my time at Weimar that I had a conversion experience. For the first time in my life I understood grace; I met Jesus. I had become so conservative that I tried to get one of our religion teachers fired because he was teaching us that God loved us and accepted us without us doing anything. He said that nothing we could do could add to or take away from God’s love for us, that we were saved by God’s grace full stop, without any involvement from us. To my friends and I, this was just heresy. I’ll never forget when this particular man gave a talk at a Friday night vespers and one of our highly-esteemed professors who had all the conservative credentials stood up to the pulpit after he was done and said, “Students, what you have just heard is all the truth.” We couldn’t believe it. We thought surely he was going to get up and water down or soften what the speaker had said. But he didn’t. It was under this man’s teaching that I accepted the grace of God into my life for the first time. I’ll never forget leaving a class one day during which he had told a story about God’s grace. I remember going outside to talk with a friend of mine and it was literally like the clouds parted in the sky and the sun shone through. I said to my friend, “I think I’ve got it. I don’t have to do anything. God loves me.” We embraced with smiles across our faces that couldn’t be wiped away. It was just so amazing.
I went to work in the Pennsylvania Conference immediately out of Weimar and from there I encountered real life. I met real people who had real concerns about day-to-day challenges, and I realized that the nature of Christ was not foremost in their minds. They were concerned about their children, their personal doubts, their economic security, about forgiveness and being right with God. I was faced with difficult decisions where my ideology came up against human community. I remember we had a guy in my church who was a smoker. Twenty years before, this guy had been a member and had renounced his own membership over the smoking issue. Then he quit and rejoined the church, started smoking again, renounced his membership again, quit, and joined the church again. Now he had started smoking again and there were people who felt that it was incumbent upon me to say he should leave the church again. It was in those kinds of moments that I was like, “No, this is not how I see parents treating their children if they make a repeated mistake. They don’t throw them out until they straighten up and then accept them back. No. It’s within the safe and loving context of a human family that people learn to be who they’re supposed to be.” I realized that my harsh ideology was bumping up against real life. I realized that God is not as much about ideas as he is about people. I knew that if I didn’t love people, then I couldn’t do my ministry.
RD: Part of what makes your story so interesting is that people tend to think of you as being liberal. But your roots are actually very conservative and it doesn’t sound like you went through any huge ideological shift or conversion to “liberalism.” You just saw people’s needs and found yourself gradually moving into social justice projects (which for some reason people seem to equate with liberalism). So how do you conceive of your identity now? Who are you? Are you what everybody thinks you are?
RB: I doubt it. You’re very correct to say that I didn’t arrive at my positions by sitting down and trying to figure out, “What’s my position on this issue?” In other words, I don’t have a position on affordable housing or healthcare because I heard a speaker who articulated an ideology that I agreed with. It’s because I know people who are essentially dying for lack of healthcare, people who are working really hard at their jobs trying to raise their families. My evolution as a person has come about through a very pastoral interaction with individuals. And I think that’s what people misunderstand most about me. I am very much a concrete, on-the-ground kind of person. I don’t really operate in the realm of ideology that much, although when I write it probably sounds like ideology. All of it comes from an experience of life with people and my aspiration to be radically faithful. I want to be faithful to the life and ministry and teachings of Jesus with people. I’ve found that when I do that in my ministry it bridges ideological gaps.
I don’t think church is the place for lectures about politics and history, although those things are valuable and should come into our thinking. I think that worship is about interpreting scripture in light of present contexts and circumstances and helping people think Christianly about the world we inhabit. And that’s what I’m trying to do. Sometimes that’s going to look conservative and at other times it’s going to look liberal. But it just is what it is. The church has its own job to do.
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Isn't this exactly what the church was meant to be? Not merely a group defined by particular beliefs, but one of living for helping others rather than introspective, often divisive interpretations of how those beliefs affect of own lives, not the lives of others.
What would be the affect of the Adventist church if all could adopt a similar mission? Where is the leadership vision to begin to develop this as a universal program for the entire world church?
A popular Christian author closed out of his paperbacks with these thoughts:
"When saw we ye alone, naked, thirsty, hungery, in pain"?
the Answer was "Hanging on a Tree!" The centrality of the cross is at once the freedom from bondage and the compelling mission to Social Justice. Matt 25 is the Gospel as work.
The Church is an organized way to service in His Name.
Tom Z.
Diversity, perversity! I know of no evidence that diversity enhances our education, our worship or anything else. It is indeed a chimera of the far left and even reasonable persons have been caught up in its train unfortunately.
Diversity teaches that all *cultures* are equal, that all religions are equal and that all philosophy is equal. If you believe in the equality of cultures I take you to China where baby girls were once destroyed, where married couples are limited in the number of children they may have.
Diversity does not enhance unity, to the contrary it produces disunity. Pluralism in religion, which actually is a form of diversity, has no room in the SDA church and produces confusion and disenchantment.
If you wish to learn more about diversity I recommend the book The Diversity Myth by David Sackes and Peter Thiel, a very well documented book on this phenomenon which has invaded our fair land.
It is hoped that the newly elected NAD President, Jackson, will see thru this and terminate any funding.
I realized that my harsh ideology was bumping up against real life. I realized that God is not as much about ideas as he is about people. I knew that if I didn’t love people, then I couldn’t do my ministry.
*************
Thanks so much for this, Ryan. So much ideological harshness gets bandied about on this site (and has even shown up on this particular thread),and it gets so wearisome. It's one of the reasons I've retreated from posting as much, and even reading much here anymore. I felt I had been getting sucked into the vortex. It's refreshing to hear again what really matters.
Thanks...
Frank
Frank,
Good to see you posted, friend.
May I suggest God is about Grace which includes "ideas, love for people, law,and faith."
It is easy to get sucked into hostility and anger here because a degree of self-righteouness remains in us all.
The attitudes of Christ of "love,joy, longsuffering, gentleness,goodness, kindness, faith and self control" are easily forgotten because we have not yet arrived. May we all grow in those attitudes, against such, properly understood and practiced...there is no law.
Blessings,
pat
I understand and have experienced large portions of the life journey Ryan took. My family became Adventist when I was a kid... I grew up poor... my family was conservative... I started my ministry with a conservative flavor... and now that I am a minister in the Pennsylvania Conference (where I accepted God's gift of saved by grace)... I even worked with one of Ryan's past churches (it is a mess and they attribute their current state to Ryan).
I thank God that I am free from a theology built around "works." My conservative church said I was liberal and my liberal church said I was conservative. This is a good place to be...
I just pray that Ryan will discover a little more balance in his overall theology and methodology. If he can experience this balance (only God can give), he will be a much stronger leader in our Church.
www.AdventistVoice.com
Ken Lytle,
I don't know you or Ryan, but am acquainted w/ professional ethics. This public smear is inappropriate: "I even worked with one of Ryan's past churches (it is a mess and they attribute their current state to Ryan)."
Your posting of this awakens my suspicion that it may indicate jealousy of a fellow pastor.
Ken,
As a pastor, would you want another pastor who came after you at a church to post something like you just did for thousands to read?
Would you really want that pastor to say online that your previous church says it was a mess because of you? What is the purpose behind making such a comment about another pastor to a world wide audience? It is not a critique of his theology or anything. Quite frankly, it sounds petty.
Ah Christi, you beat me to it. Wouldn't hurt to hear it a couple of times though.
It is sad that Adventism has pastors like Ken who would publicly, and on a wide forum, denigrate a fellow pastor. This is most unprofessional as well as unethical. Did you not take any ethics classes or training in your preparation for the ministry? Frankly, it reeks of arrogance.
Sorry if it came across wrong... The church feels that all is well and liked Ryan very much. I am the one who believes it is spiritually weak because of his influence. (I don't hide the fact that I disagree with Ryan's theological approach)
@ Elaine - Our Church (just like most denominations) has leaders who rebel against the Biblical, fundamental beliefs. These men and women should be dismissed if they want to buck the system. We need to have a Church that is unified in theology and methodology.
I believe that Pastor Ken Lytle is sincere in his apology...I personally would have substituted Ryan's name for "a pastor who believes as he does."
Regardless, pastors can make or break a church. However, this idea of it being politically incorrect to condemn false practices in other pastors is ridiculous. Some may think that a socially active church who feeds the hungry is enough, while neglecting evangelism. Others may be all about doctrines, prophecy and evangelism, but have no fruits to show the love behind the doctrines that define the church. Scripture is clear. Along with possesing truth comes possessing the love of Christ. None can compromise the other.
@Elaine Nelson: What can I say? If you throw out the Bible as the word of God as easily as you do, then there's nothing left but human speculation. Please reconsider who or what your ultimate and final authority in life is.
Ken, good lucky in finding a church that is "unified in belief and methodology. Let us know as there are some here are interested in such a church.
Great interview! Thanks for sharing Ryan - I applaud your willingness to be a true leader and step out. Way to go!!
Ken came on a blog read by Adventists all over the world and said that a church Ryan left was a mess and that the church blamed Ryan. Then he backtracked and said what he meant was that the church actually liked Ryan but he personally thought the church was a mess because of Ryan.
I'm not sure that is much of an improvement.
I'll ask again. How would you feel if a pastor who came after you came on here in front of thousands of Adventists, named you by name, and said he thought the church you pastored was a mess because of you? I'm not talking about politely disagreeing with your theology, I'm talking about publicly blaming you for making a church "spiritually weak" and a "mess." Is this really ok in your book?
And no, I don't think saying "sorry if that came across wrong" is much of an apology, especially when it is followed by more smearing (no the church didn't think he messed them up, just me.)
I know a church that was led by a conservative pastor, that became a mess and needed to be sorted out by the new liberal pastor. Does that balance things up a little.
I agree, Beth. The "apology" even includes a call for firing church leaders who "rebel," like Ryan.
There's much in this example about unrecognized emotions hiding behind a concern for proper theology. So many others who post here also as the champions for Doctrines and Truth seem to have forgotten the point of it all.
“Those whom Christ commends in the judgment may have known little of theology, but they have cherished His principles. Through the influence of the divine Spirit they have been a blessing to those about them. Even among the heathen are those who have cherished the spirit of kindness....” DA 638.2
____________________________________________________
"be reverent in behavior, not slanderers nor enslaved to much wine, teachers of that which is good" titus 2:3
Thanks, all, for self-policing. Sometimes differences in time zones make it impossible to keep a close eye as comments get posted on a thread.
Ken, your remark was slanderous and now we learn, dishonest too. Such posts cannot be tolerated on this site. Please be more careful next time.
Your Friend,
So do do not value diversity. I presume that you live in the USA. Unles you are a Native American, should you not go back where your ancestors came from?
Ken,
Who in your church has the power to decide what is "against the biblical, fundamental beliefs" and what is not? Do you have a pope-like figure able to do so?
The question is not primarily about Bob Ryan's methods. It is basically is Social Justice a consequence of accepting the Gospel. Is gratitude an outgrowth of assurance?
I think a serious study of the letter to Philemon and the Epistle of James are critical to this discussion.
I read a degree of praise theology in Bob's Approach that can lead into sentimentalism or self aggrandizment.
I am, of course, too far from the site to make any valid assessment. Tom Z
Tom,
I believe you meant "Ryan Bell" wherever you wrote "Bob Ryan"--very different personalities! :)
I'm not sure where you get "praise theology" from the interview, nor do I even know what that means. Being closer to the situation, I believe I can make an assessment (a "valid assessment" is clearly not any easier to arrive at on this site than a "unified in belief and methodology"), and that is: Ryan leads by example, encouraging conversation and living radically faithful, authentic Christianity. A congregation could do a lot worse than that.
Peace, and good health!
What is so wrong with social justice? Did Jesus just preach, or did He help people in need? At one time, I guess I was naive enough to believe that we had gotten past the old conflict between "the social gospel" and the Biblical gospel. Although the former is not really the gospel - it is the fruit of the gospel - both belong together.
To borrow wording from Albert Einstein, a church that focuses on social justice without proclaiming the Biblical gospel is blind. But a church that attempts to proclaim the Biblical gospel without caring about people and their physical needs is lame.
RB: "Since it requires someone with a very detailed working knowledge of a church to fill out the application, churches nominate themselves for the award. One of our leaders answered all the questions about what makes our church innovative, and an independent committee picked us from among the applicants."
Evidently, the Innovation award was based on self reporting by a church leader filling a questionnaire and it appears that no follow-up interview of other people, such as those who were most affected by its social justice efforts, than the person who answered it was done. Anyways, I just feel that the award should have been given to all the 5 that were selected by the committee. They all deserved praise, IMO.
I visited Hollywood Church almost every week without fail starting Sept 2008 through the end of 2009. However, instead of worshipping in the main sanctuary, I fellowshipped with the Thai church that met in the chapel. I arrived early and left late usually after the weekly potluck with the Thai group. It was from this vantage point, close but too close, that I observed what went on in general. To be honest, and perhaps I'm just blind, I somehow didn't see signs that the Hollywood congregation was growing numerically. A recent attender whom I interviewed described Hollywood church as composed mostly of young adults who come and leave every 2-3 years.
"It is hoped that the newly elected NAD President, Jackson, will see thru this and terminate any funding."
Posted by: Your Friend | 17 November 2010 at 10:46
Ryan should this come about please let me know where to send my Ten Percent"
Thanks for your "repentance" and this article.It gives one HOPE
Jay
Ken Lytle. When you have come to "repentance" your first action should be an apology to Ryan Bell and others who have come to know what God=LOVE is all about.
Sincerely
Eternal LIFE is to know GOD=love. Love is the greatest power in the universe.
Jay
"Please reconsider who or what your ultimate and final authority in life is."
Posted by: Johnny Vance (not verified) | 17 November 2010 at 6:00
reply.
Johnny Vance, Love is the FINAL authority in my life. Jesus came to exhibit this LOVE, this final "authority" All else will fail.
Ken Lytle did NOT apologize he copped out.
Sincerely
Rachel / Ryan:
Thanks so much for this article and Ryan thanks so much for what you are doing in Hollywood. I know Ryan I respect Ryan and what he is doing. There are many things that Ryan and I don't see eye to eye on. Yet for all of that, I know that he loves Jesus and he loves people with great passion. I also know that when I talk to young adults who live in his area and are struggling to stay connected to Jesus and to Adventism that Ryan's church can reach them when more conventional churches do not.
Those who have been critical of Ryan remind me of that little story in Luke 9:49 where John is outraged that some people are casting out demons in the name of Jesus, but were not a part of the disciples. Jesus replies: "Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side."
I know really just one thing. Ryan is on the side of Jesus.
In the grip of grace.
Steve Moran
While I don't agree with Ryan on many things, I have always appreciated his authenticity towards his relationship with Jesus. I have spent a lot of time with Ryan when he was younger and at this "other" church and I know Ryan has a solid and unique relationship with God. What bothers me about the smears and the libel that is going on here is in reality, you are questioning Ryan's faith. Tsk, tsk, tsk!!!! We as Christians first, Adventists second, should know better than that. Fact is, our moccasins fit our feet and our feet only. I have and would never question Ryan's faith and relationship with Jesus, because what I know of the man, it is very solid.
We have to trust that if one has a solid relationship with Jesus, that Jesus will then lead them in a direction that will touch lives and bring individuals to the foot of the cross. Ultimately, that is the goal. I don't believe Jesus was a "liberal" and I don't believe he was a "conservative". I believe Jesus used the means available to him to reach the audience he was exposed to at that time. We all would be wise to follow suit.
To you Ryan I say this: keep up the good work sir. I consider you a friend and I support your ministry of bringing people to the foot of the cross. God bless and good luck.
Sincerely,
I really enjoyed hearing Ryan talk a bit more about his background and growth as a person and as a Christian. Thanks for the great interview.
Great article! Way to go, Pastor Bell!
As I read Ryan's discussion of his church I wept. FINALLY there is a pastor that sees 'people before rules'. I am in my mid 70's, 3rd Gen. Adventist, pastors daughter, teacher's wife,my husband has been Hd. Elder in many churches and we both are leaders and sit on Church Boards. Our continual fight with Boards are those in the conservative element that want to kick everyone out of the church that does not line up to historical adventism, veganism and perfection. That way crushes the spirit and creates discouragement, guilt and discension.
I am amazed that Ryan has come from the background that he has and can STILL be balanced (yes he is) and not fanatical.
When my (pastor's wife) mother was 93 and heard Dwight Nelson give his Evangelistic series on "Your Forever Friend Jesus", she said, "finally, some one has gotten it right". That was after 80 years of evangelistic series with the 666, the beasts and probation closing in our lives before we are aware of it.
PTL some of our people and churches have finally realized what GRACE is really about. I only wish I was closer to the Hollywood church.
Ryan should receive a district of 2 more churches in addition to the Hollywood Church. He should increase his church's monthly / yearly tithe income (which is down 50%) this year. We have been told by the Conference Adminstrators that a church to qualify for a Pastor that church needs to be bringing in 200 thousand a year which covers salary, healthcare, etc. Many of us pastors here in southern cal have been given extra churches to cover cause of tithe decrease and why not Ryan? Churches his size are part of 2-3 Church districts. Sorry to see how us minority pastors are still being treated unequal compared to Caucasian pastors. We blacks, Latino and Asian pastors are given district churches of 2-3 to compensate out salaries. SCC administrators please level the playing field among the white popular area pastors too! If our loads were lighter we could be doing lots of social justice projects too!
Pat...
A belated thanks for the encouragement!
Frank
If ever in Hollywood I will visit Hollywood Adventist Church. May God richly bless the ministries of your church.
Many churches fit into their communities based on the needs of a particular situation. People should always come "first" and the basis of that interaction should always be driven by "love of the people as exampled by Jesus (God)". I am skeptical of the definitions of "conservative" and "liberal" brought to this discussion by the article (mainly implied) especially about Ryan's background. Where I grew up the term might more accurately be "fanatical" or "unbalanced" ie Paul before He met God on the Damascus road. I don't know Ryan or his "theology" but I come back to Christ's words "is it wrong to do good on the Sabbath?" or any other day?? We all should be looking for ways to impact "our communities and represent our God well!!!"
All the best to you!!
Fred
To “Pastor Southern California Conference”,
If you have a concern about pastoral assignments, I believe the proper forum to deal with it is not the S. C. Conference, but your Region Director and Region Committee. Unlike Regional Conferences in other parts of the country (which I understand had roots in segregation), the Regional structure within the S. C. Conference is a relatively recent development (I recall since the early-mid ‘90s), mostly advocated for by the various local congregations who wanted a more responsive structure, and felt the Conference was too large (stretches over thousands of square miles, three counties and has over 150 congregations).
Many ethnic minorities (as well as non-minorities) also felt a one-size-fits-all Conference agenda and methodology did not lend itself to addressing local concerns, diverse cultural sensitivities and on-the-ground-realities, which stifled growth and kept the Conference from achieving its full potential. Regions within the Conference, it was argued, would allow flexibility and local control, encourage a diversity of methods and innovation, and enable the church to more-effectively reach different people groups and “markets”. All regions are given a proportional allocation of funds, resources and FTE/staff, and it is up to each Region Director, working with their respective Region Committees, to assign resources, pastors and staff.
I believe Ryan has the support of his Region Director, the West Region Committee, his West Region pastoral peers, and his congregation. With the meager resources and the challenges of a typical inner-city, multi-cultural, multi-generational congregation, he has done more than a commendable job. He is doing more than his share of proclaiming the Gospel and upholding the good name of Adventism in his community (at the neighborhood, city, state, national and international levels).
Regarding your implication that a drop in tithe means Ryan is not carrying his weight, have you taken into account factors such as members losing their jobs, or having their salaries slashed by more than 50%? Have you accounted for groups the church has spawned and the tithe base that leaves when it matures into a company/congregation? Do you know the real-life stories behind the numbers?
Ryan openly puts his personal reputation and that of his congregation out there for all to examine, analyze and critique. It would be nice if his critics would also open up their records, perhaps even sharing relevant and comparable data: a good start would be the last 5 years’ NCD (Natural Church Development) scores, measuring the overall health of their respective congregations.
If I take your last comment at face value, I would also assume if we could openly examine the past social justice service records of pastors who previously had responsibility for one church, but who now have 2 or 3, it would indicate that they were 2 or 3 times busier with social justice work than before their current assignments ; )
I don't even have to read the article to form an opinion about "Ryan". Based on the double speak, double standards of the liberals on this forum and the "it is ok if I attack but not if you point out a disagreement" mentality, I can tell Ryan must be trouble no matter where he goes. On a forum where Ken Lytle is criticized for stating about the FACT (from even a Conference standpoint) that there was a "mess" to clean up to another ARTICLE on this same website criticizing and belittling Amazing Facts founder Joe Crews's book. Double standard indeed. I am not saying anything against either the author of the article or Ken but you people are just plain out of your minds. You should think more before you speak. You are just falling all over your tongues with attack... unfortunately you don't see it. That is the problem with liberals -- they don't recognize their intolerance and narrow vision.
OK, bring it on....
Juan,
Trying to sound like Cliff sounds only pathetic.
Thank you for this interview!
The "one mile mission" concept is dynamite. As a fifth generation Adventist, I've always felt the warmth and safety of walking into a Seventh-day Adventist church, wherever I've gone in the world, from Japan to Venezuela, New York to L.A. The one mile mission is extending that haven of refuge beyond our walls, creating an intentional presence of care and safety among those who are physically close to us. I'd be interested in another interview where Ryan details that particular ministry. If Spectrum could kindly email me if such a follow-up is pursued, I'd appreciate it.
This link was passed on to me by one of Ryan's members, a man who works in the local media industry and draws spiritual strength from the Hollywood church counteracting other influences. Ryan, my prayers are with you and the unique needs of your congregation.
Pastor Scott from New York
Correction to my previous post: "than" should have been left out of the last sentence.
Christi, who's Cliff?
Thanks for your witness, Hollywood SDA Church (Ryan, Nathan & all). It's great to hear what you're doing. Peace, Jeff
http://advactivism.wordpress.com
You should think more before you speak. You are just falling all over your tongues with attack... unfortunately you don't see it. That is the problem with liberals -- they don't recognize their intolerance and narrow vision.
OK, bring it on....
Posted by: Juan Arivay (not verified) | 20 November 2010 at 3:01
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Welcome to the discussion board Juan.
in Christ,
Bob
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"The Truth shall make you free" John 8:32
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"The Truth shall make you free" John 8:32
Joselito said: "To be honest, and perhaps I'm just blind, I somehow didn't see signs that the Hollywood congregation was growing numerically. A recent attender whom I interviewed described Hollywood church as composed mostly of young adults who come and leave every 2-3 years."
Is growing numerically the only thing that is important? I get the impression that his church community may be somewhat more transient than most, so the coming and going seems pretty normal. I'm just wondering why this comment was made. So his church doesn't fit a "typical" profile--does that make it ineffective? Not sure I'm understanding the implications.
My husband and I are 28-year members of the Pennsylvania church that Ryan served in immediately following his college graduation. We were also both elders working closely with him during his ministry there. As such, I can speak authoritatively in correcting the misinformation cited in Ken Lytle's blog "it is a mess..." Ryan was a terrific young pastor. He was refreshingly open, creative and spiritually driven even in those early years of his career. He also was instrumental in helping us take the courageous steps in those early days toward a more contemporary, vibrant and involved worship service; a significant paradigm shift which lead to a deeper and more intimate relationship with our Lord for many of us. In fact, when Ryan left for seminary we were a part of a group of members who wanted him to return to our church following his seminary training.
Unless Ken Lytle is speaking about our sister church in the district, he is incorrect in his statement "it is a mess and they attribute their current state to Ryan." I do not know what his opinion was based on, but it certainly was not informed by personal knowledge or experience related to Ryan's time with us.
I do wish I could see firsthand what the Hollywood church is doing in its community; it sounds incredible and hard and Kindgom-building. I believe with all my heart that in Jesus' death- the doors of the Kingdom were thrown wide open to allow for all who wish to enter. His heart's blood was given for that very purpose and it is incumbent on us to minister in a way that keeps those doors open at least as wide as Jesus did. My prayer is that I always belong to a church that believes the same. God bless.
Pam Melnick
I heard that Ryan drinks. Is this true?
Last time I was with Ryan we drank water, fruit juice and at communion we drank grape juice. What do you drink?
I read the wisdom of Proverbs the other day and it said to give strong drink to him who is low in spirits and in poverty. I've taken to giving out beer on the streets on Friday nights as a Proverbs inspired ministry. I don't have Ryan's sanction to do this. Only God's word!
@mom2twoboys: "Is growing numerically the only thing that is important?"
I hadn't seen this thread since I last posted. I apologize for not responding sooner. Doubling the attendance of Hollywood SDA Church was the refrain in all the news I'd read, so I was curious to learn more about it.
A state-of-the-congregation annual report required of all pastors will answer some of the questions that have been submitted here: membership growth/increase in attendance and spirituality, diversity, tithe, outcome of social justice efforts, etc.
Very interesting perspectives, I've actually read the entire blog to boot. I completely relate to Ryan in his journey... in principle. But I agree with many of his critics. Now to get off the fence; pastors and theologians are not the same even if we attempt to make them so; they have different agendas. Ryan is merely reaching the people's needs and not his projected theological nuances of Scripture; many would argue this heresy. I disagree. On the other hand, a staunch theologian may parse his actions narrowly and acutely while marginally approving his actions on a higher principle. What am I saying? Ryan is a pastor, a shepherd to his flock. Let him pastor. Now if he were to be a theologian, he may question certain idiosyncrasies he has theologized. Either way, the work of God is not limited to Adventism. Preach the word Ryan. The world needs more people like you; especially in Adventism.
Juan says Ryan is "trouble". That is probably true! Someone plans to come to church on Saturday from 10am to 12 noon and go home, and that's it for the week. then finds themselves volunteering for a "job". that is "trouble", because once one becomes involved, "owns" the activity, one begins to "own" the church and its ministry, and involvement increases. No one had greater "diversity" than Jesus. No telling where His city church was located because He worshiped with sinners, IRS people, prostitutes, people plotting to forcibly overthrow the Romans, high church officials, enemy soldiers, sick, people with contagious diseases, touched dead bodies and they became living members of the group. Jesus wanted people (even the Pharasees and Saducees) to think outside the box of telling God how He could have a relationship with them, but rather teaching them how to let God tell them how to have a realtionship with Him. Nobody liked Jesus for His radical store-front ministry, So all they could do is try to put Him in a tomb for good. The quicker the better.
More of our SDA churches need to be All-Inclusive, Welcoming places for everyone regardless of who they think they are, or what they think they are. I'm sure there are a lot of SDA's around the US like me who have friends who would not be welcome in their SDA church. I have friends in other states who have actually been asked not to return to church, or had their membership withdrawn and have had to find Sunday keeping churches in order to continue worhiping God, but they still consider themselves SDA's and fellowship with SDA groups when allowed. Keep up the good work Ryan. May you have a postitive effect on your Conference officials, and the NAD President and his staff. This is they type of Revival and Reformation we need everywhere. Steve in Macon, GA
Ryan, I have just read your interview and think it is great! I would just like to say a word of thanks to you and wish you the Lord's greatest blessing. I do believe that Jesus would say to you, "Well done, good and faithful servant, keep up the good work for Me".
Be of courage and press right on. The Lord will hold you by the right hand and strengthen you. God bless you.
>>> I read the wisdom of Proverbs the other day and it said to give strong drink to him who is low in spirits and in poverty. I've taken to giving out beer on the streets on Friday nights as a Proverbs inspired ministry. I don't have Ryan's sanction to do this. Only God's word!
Sadly, I saw a case recenly in my ambulance of the consequences of doing this. Alcohol is a depressant. Giving it to someone who is already depressed is a very bad idea.
I guess that one must interpret Solomon very carefully, not literally.
/Bevin
Too much of a good thing can be a good thing becoming bad.
Elaine