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If woman was indeed created fully human with all the functions, abilities and inherent capacities of man including the desires, dreams and aspirations of same, and if God arbitrarily (for her own good) placed her in subjection, limiting her choices and spheres (either as punishment or more benignly for her protection) then women’s reaction to his restriction could only be submission, (using subjection as an excuse for not exercising accountable dominion) denial, (labeling her natural God-given aspirations and inner callings as evil or temptations of the devil) or rebellion (risking death rather than life without freedom); and if God then deliberately placed man over women (knowing the human propensity for abuse of power) giving man seemingly legitimate claim to domination (a state totally at odds with God’s entire system of government) then Adam was certainly correct in his assessment that God is, in fact, culpable for sin after all!
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Even as a child, I could not help but see that God was culpable for sin; I think that it's only a surprise to man, not God.
I notice the word IF starts off your piece.
If God isnt culpable for sin, then what happens to your IF?
Or is your IF preference leading you to make conclusions about Gods culpability?
Romans 9:20
New International Version (NIV)
20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”[a]
Michael
If God did that and then humanity decided to give the sexes equality legally and otherwise, that would make humanity more moral than God.
At 149 words, a sentence indeed!
Ken - ;-)
Donna in jest. Betty and I have a pre-nuptual agreement. She would handle all the little decisions and I the big ones. Now 63 years of marraige I am still waiting for a BIG DECISION. Tom Z
I think if you ask her, Tom, she will let you choose the next president.
"If God is fair, why aren't all humans given the chance to refuse the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge?"
An interesting sentence indeed!
I think most Christians agree that male domination is a consequence of sin, just some see this as being instructed by God whereas others (myself included) see God's statements as simply describing what He knew would occur, because of sin.
I also believe God's plan of redemption calls for the outworking of Christian prinicples in society, to gradually correct the harmful consequences of sin. Ironically we're know in a position (in western society at least) where secular society is showing more progress in this regard than the Christian church.
Adventism is a consequence of sin too!
On another thread on this site, Esther said:
"One's beliefs about gender roles will inform one's theology, not the other way around.
This truth is too dangerous to admit, because it invalidates so many other claims made on the basis of theology. This truth threatens entrenched and extremely invested power structures. The "theological" debate has been going on for my entire lifetime for this very reason: because those in power know it's not about theology, and to confine it indefinitely to that arena maintains the status quo. The problem is that cultural attitudes are changing at different rates within the church, not that the theology is poorly understood."
Like Esther I have watched the issue of women being referred back again and again to committees to determine the theological bases for denial of human rights. IF woman is a human being - which I believe she is - THEN she should be acknowledged as such. To twist theology to meet one's misconception of the nature of humanity is injustice.
Donna, and all women,
I'm deeply sad at the despicable, stultifying and painful nonsense that has been spewed out and used to manipulate and control you - especially that which ihas been done in the name of God.
Sorry, sorry, sorry for what this patriarchal sin has done to you, and also the implications for us men.
Weird picture.
Who knows where Moses got the story of Adam and Eve, and who knows what has been done with it through the years, especially since the Jews, who believe women are mere possessions, were in charge of keeping the record. Read it. The "woman you gave me" was always at fault from Genesis to Revelation, where she finally becomes a harlot and rides "the beast." Wonderful.
The truth is, no doubt, far different. When we get to heaven, more than likely we'll find out that it was actually Adam who got into the argument with the snake (men like to argue, women hate snakes), and ate the apple to show the snake who's boss (men like to be the boss) and Eve had nothing to do with it. This probably all happened while Eve was wondering where Adam was. As we all know, men have a terrible time with directions.
We'll just have to wait and see. In the meantime, since we don't know "the truth," best to treat women with the respect, dignity and equality they deserve. I think we ought to give a woman a chance to head the GC. Chances are good, very good, extremely good, that she will do a better job than Ted -- who wouldn't?
tg
If you want to really know what happened there in the garden of Eden, ask Lilith!
Great picture - says a lot!
"Like Esther I have watched the issue of women being referred back again and again to committees to determine the theological bases for denial of human rights."
What human rights? To be ordained? That's not a human right nor is it in even the slightest related to equality. Sin certainly changed the relationship of man and woman. In almost all human situations there must be a person exercising headship. God chose man and the feminist movement has upset family values. I'm not a Rick Santorum fan, but he told about the extensive training his wife had and then gave up a career and stayed home with the kids. What an example for SDA women!
Maybe Donna would been very content had the headship function been accorded to Eve, but it wasn't.
Perhaps not being able to recognize that ordination is not a human right is proof that some women shouldnt be ordained.
Michael
Of course he is culpable, and he took responsibility for the sinful act of creating us, taking his just punishment: dying on a cross. We are thus free.
Your Friend,
Just what is the example to be gained (for us SDA women) because Rick Santorum's wife gave up a career and stayed home with kids?
Kim
Love your work, TJG
Of course, the story is not 'the truth' - in the Jewish tradition, the story is 'about the truth'. Our western education makes us struggle with recognising the difference. Literalists will be mounting the barricades already!
Donna--, you pack a lot of intellectual heft into your short sentence. And you're right: this has nothing to do with theological reasoning. It's abo!ut power, control and domination--with a lot of superficial spin.. That's the way it's always been..
Blessings on you
Jeris
@ your friend
I agree Rick's wife gave up alot to stay home with the family. I'm not sure how they can afford it. One income with .. What is it? 7 kids? One of them disabled? I'm just not sure how they do it?
Women need to be able to do what they think God's calls them to do. Those who feel called to pastoral leadership and ordination should be as respected as those called to motherhood. Let God be the judge. He alone has the ability to look on the inside and determine why we have chosen what we have chosen.
Great Article! A paragragh about a sentence in one sentence!
By the way if anyone is interested, try diagramming this sentence (if anyone still does diagramming) it is an interesting one to do.
Excellent sentence! Thank you Donna. As always, you enlighten and make us think.
The padlock in the picture is nonfunctional. Is the graphic artist making the statement that women are in fact free? - they just need to realize it and act accordingly.
Dear Donna
You ended with "...then Adam was certainly correct in his assessment that God is, in fact, culpable for sin after all!" I'm trying to assume you made that statement as a provocateur and not that you actually believe this. Am I correct in making that assumption?
The problem I have however, is that for new converts (or even for the "old" saints) to read this can be not only confusing, but terrifying. How does one reconcile a God who would go to the extreme of putting Himself in harm's way to save us with a God who by some very bizarre and sadistic reason set us up to sin? That is simply really bad and irresponsible theology, in my estimation.
One cannot afford to minimize the "risk" God took by creating us with the power of choice. Neither can we second guess God's omniscience in allowing sin to "mature" so that everyone can witness its deeply disruptive and deadly nature. Neither can we minimize the countless methods God instituted in order to resurrect our deadened and lethargic senses to make us catch a glimpse of life without death. The idea that we arrogantly believe we owned the patent on understanding all things Divine is one more evidence of our lost state.
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