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Mission Accomplished? Obama, Osama and the Global Drama
Last Sunday, as bemused citizens in scattered areas of Alabama, Georgia and Tennessee faced the reality of a seriously devastating multiple tornado attack, the President of the United States made a surprise “mission accomplished” speech. During the elections, the resilient rookie Senator from Illinois had promised to hunt down and kill the man whom the Bush administration blamed for the unnatural disaster that shook New York on September 11, 2001. Now, half way through his presidency as his approval ratings wane, our Commander in Chief has declared that another promissory task can be struck from his ambitious and often controversial “to do” list.
Following the announcement, it did not take long for jubilant throngs to assemble on national shrines at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and New York’s “Ground Zero.” The youthfulness of the initial assemblers betrayed a generation whose teenage years were dominated by the legacy of a President who had drawn a line in the sand as he declared a war against all “terrorists” who hate American democracy and her freedoms. The son of Laden was their real life bogeyman who was the archetypical incarnation of the terrible Lucifer, son of perdition. If this one man could be stopped, the collective blood of those for whom the World Trade Center marked their final earthly destination would be atoned.
National Priority
For those who celebrated the assassination of the obviously dangerous ideologue, vehement hatred of the Saudi national had nothing to do with political affiliation. Barack Obama despised him just as much as George W. Bush. Disdain for Osama bin Laden was as American as apple pie and the fourth of July. Anyone who dared question the evidence that pointed to his guilt was a treacherous and unpatriotic enemy of the State who better keep his conspiracy theories to himself. This man, and this man alone, was responsible for the reckless destruction of prime New York real estate and the cowardly mass murder of thousands of unsuspecting humans whose weekend plans would never materialize.
Apparently, the quest to quiet bin Laden was such a national priority that no expense would be spared. Totally ignoring the rapidly increasing deficit and insensitive to the fact that most citizens of nations are innocent victims of their leaders decisions, former President Bush burdened trillions of dollars on future generations and commanded United States troops to wantonly waste brown skinned souls in Muslim countries. Innocent American lives are precious, but the innocents “over there” are “collateral damage”–disposable nuisances who only obscure the ability to see the real targets. The rule of law was ignored and moral sensibilities suspended as “enemy combatants” were tortuously enslaved in America’s Cuban prison. On the very island where the leader is decried for suppressing human rights, a nation quick to cast stones is forced to confront the beam in its own eye.
The Cost of Revenge
Not wishing to be outdone, the son of a Kansan (whose American authenticity would never have been questioned if he had not also been a son of a Kenyan), eagerly grabbed the military baton from his predecessor. He had something to prove. He may not have been raised with a hunting rifle in his hand, but he knew the real narrative behind the super-heros, war movies and “cowboy and injun” serials that have shaped the ideology of several generations. Americans must never turn the other cheek or portray any semblance of humility. We are the unrivaled Super Power, and the only way to prove it to the world is to military dominate rogue nations that don’t have the resources to resist. Surprising the pacifists and the premature attempt at preemption by the Nobel Peace Prize committee, flower power was defiled by F16s as Barack Hussein Obama transferred the center of American violence from Baghdad to Kabul to Karachi.
Has it all been worth it? Judging from the exuberant renditions of patriotic songs and the staccatoed chants of “U-S-A” that permeated the nation after the announcement, some would say yes. The trillions of dollars fighting wars on several front were worth it. The hundreds of thousands of non military, non American lives were worth it. The thousands of military corpses that the media never shows were worth it. The missing limbs from tens of thousands of veterans were worth it. The psychological damage done to hundreds of thousands of youth who tasted and wore the exploded blood and flesh of colleagues in their units and enemy combatants was worth it. The insulting incitement of Native American sensibilities by code-naming the operation to kill bin Laden “Geronimo” was worth it. But has it really all been worth it?
The Real Terrorist
As a student of Scripture, I know there is absolutely nothing that the United States can do to eradicate global evil. If anything, the violent attempt at democratization has mainly served to inspire others whose disdain for western imperialism will manifest itself in Islamic extremism. Osama bin Laden, al Qaeda and others who resort to violence to dominate–both foreign and domestic–are merely reflections of the paramount face of evil, the great deceiver, Satan himself. Whether the orders come from a walled compound in a Pakistani suburb or a government fortress in Langley, Virginia, those who order the “kill” are really carrying out the command of the true purveyor of destruction.
When I think of all the souls that have been sacrificed to get to Osama bin Laden, my contempt for Satan increases. Here is an entity who has actually beguiled people into thinking that they have the ability to eradicate evil. And how does he coerce them to do it? By committing further acts of evil. His circle of influence spreads as children are made to make automatic heros of those trained to kill and to spurn those who seek peaceful solutions to global problems.
Conclusion: Our Responsibility
Now, more than ever, those who are called by God’s name need to take a stand for the Kingdom of Peace. We must resist the urge to submit to the pressure of patriotism and respond to the voice of the One who has united all nations by His blood. He has not called us to fight evil with evil, but challenges us to lift Him up through acts of charity as we witness his magnetizing power. He challenges us to not only pray for the families of those who died in the terrible attack on 9-11, but to intercede in behalf of Osama bin Laden’s wives and children.
He invites us to invite others to lay down their M15s and pick up instruments of healing. They must be told that salvation for Americans is not attained by following a road stained with the blood of countless souls to Osama’s hideout; but salvation can only be found in the infused blood of the One who laid down his life for the people of all ages and bids us to follow Him as he walks His path. One day soon, that path will be consumed by eternity and all who have followed Him will see that the mission accomplished on Calvary’s cross is the only solution to stopping terrorism and tornadoes. Until our faith becomes sight, always remember that a tree is known by its fruit.
Keith Augustus Burton is a member of the Advisory Board for the Adventist Peace Fellowship, and wrote the chapter “God Bless Afghanistan” for the collection of essays, The Peace Making Remnant.He has several close friends and family members who serve honorably in various branches of the United States military.
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Heaping coals of fire should be the Christian response. Thank you, Keith, for a well written and thought opinion piece.
It is easy to have confused feelings on reading this essay. Had we only attacked the actual terrorists
behind WTC we would not have sent troops to Iraq and Afghanistan; especially when the majority were from our Suadi Arabian "friends." It's no different than attempting revenge from a home robbery to destroy an entire city!
Obama inherited the wars and such an entanglement could not be ended abruptly. It is hoped that now the major enemy has been eliminated that we can begin to bring the troops home with a final "Mission Accomplished" which was never intended to democratize or rebuild an entire country. Colin Powell's warning comes to mind: "You break it, you own it," and we are now faced with "converting" the largest heroin producer in the world into an impossible mirror of the U.S. There can be no "mission accomplished" with such an impossible task.
Elaine
Am I to take from this piece that we should NOT forcefully confront evil? If this is the author's intention what would he have had us do in WWII - let Hitler take over the civilized world?
Kregg,
It is the same "pacifist" mantra over and over. It is one that doesn't see the world as it is and the sinful nature of humanity. It is one that doesn't accept the reason God ordained the state to carry the sword and fight evil doers that remove the "relative peace and tranquility" in society.
Evil individuals and existing evil in all nations will never be removed by the gospel or the sword in the present age...that is the reason both aspects are to continue till the parousia when the King of Peace comes to ultimately destroy evil and non-repentant evil doers. That is the world we live in.
regards,
pat
And a world where evil is overcome by force is not a world I wish to inhabit
Peaceful solutions are fine and dandy, but we here in the West, especially Utopian types, seem to lose sight of the fact that peace talks and sanctions don't work with these people. They don't want peace with the West; they want us to either conform to their oppressive brand of Sharia or be destroyed. I firmly believe that if we had not attacked right away after the September 11th attacks, I would be sporting a turban and a full beard (which I can't grow even if I wanted to), and my sister would be wearing a burqa, not to mention this would be Arabic instead of English.
Remember that in Ecclesiastes 3 it says there is a time to kill and a time to heal (v.3), and that there is a time for war and a time for piece (v.8). The time for war came when our nation was attacked, insulted and desecrated by Osama bin Laden's organization. As long as he was still alive, they would be planning more attacks, and if we had just stood by and said, "We're not going to take this from you! *finger shake*", then we'd be in deep trouble. Now that Osama is dead, a dangerous man has been removed from power, giving peace of mind to patriotic America and al-Qaeda-oppressed Muslims throughout the Middle East.
Before you let yourself believe the "Bush is a war criminal" garbage and the classic "We slaughtered millions of innocent Muslims", remember that the number one killer of innocent Muslims in the middle east is *not* the US Military, but people like Osama bin Laden. That's right, the number one killer of Muslims is *other Muslims*.
Donna,
I suggest evil will not be overcome by force...just relatively contained. It's just the only world we have and we don't have other choices.
regards,
pat
" Do not be overcome by evil,but overcome evil with good."
Renee Hernandez
I think the comments are a bit too binary--only this or that, absolute pacifism or real politik/realism. Consider some nuance -- http://www.amazon.com/Nevertheless-Varieties-Shortcomings-Religious-Paci.... Even David Cortright argues for a pragmatic pacifism rather than absolute pacifism (see Peace: A History of Movements and Ideas, 2008).
These are tricky issues. How does following Jesus inform my personal posture toward war and violence? How does it affect my view of the Christian's and the church's role in society? How much can Christians expect secular governments to embody the values of the kingdom (whatever my ethical/moral understanding of Christianity is)? What positions are proper for kingdom citizens to directly fill in society and government? Does our social location post-Constantine affect how we view our role in society and the degree to which we need to control history? How much of Jesus' teachings can be used to build a good empire (again not binary, all-or-nothing thinking), and how much is for building a good church that offers the world a view of the kingdom to come that is so different from the kingdoms of this world? These are not simple answers where pacifists (of various strains) or just war adherents have all the answers with the other having none. I think it is worth noting that the OT prophets did speak to some foreign governments, but their focus was on those supposedly following Yahweh. Do we still have room for both? Which should receive my primary energies?
Studying at an Anabaptist seminary, it's not surprising that Yoder speaks to me -- Ex: http://www.amazon.com/Christian-Witness-State-Howard-Yoder/dp/0836192095... & http://www.amazon.com/Original-Revolution-Essays-Christian-Pacifism/dp/0....
It's difficult to believe that Obama would be stupid enough to take credit for Osama's death unless he had absolute knowledge of Osama's demise or he had total control over him in a secret place of detention. Nonetheless, it doesn't take a genius to realize that the whole thing about Obama giving the order to take out Osama was a farce. Most likely Osama was already on a slab waiting to be picked up by our guys. The fact is that nine years ago Osama fled Afghanistan into Pakistan and has been hiding there successfully ever since. Our government couldn't find him until the Osama's henchmen gave up his body after he died of natural causes. How embarrassing is that? The DNA bubbamises is a feeble attempt to divert attention from the real story that Osama's people made a deal to hand over his body for the 25 million dollar reward and other considerations. Obama needed the drama because his approval ratings have been in the toilet so he staged the phony raid after receiving proof that the carcass was really Osama's. Getting rid of the body in quick time, claiming to have DNA verification, announcing that there are classified video footage and photographs and then refusing to show this so-called evidence all leads me to conclude that if they had Osama's body it was already decomposed to the extent that everyone could see that Osama had been dead for much more than a couple of hours. More at http://moshesharon.wordpress.com
Well, it sounds like the mother of all conspiracy theorists: Maybe WTC was an event staged by President Bush for a exemplary justification for two wars? Evidently there are some who have a very "inside track" to the CIA, the White House, and the Navy Seals--plus first-name basis with the ISI in Pakistan. The government surely needs this kind of help. Have you thought of offering your services?
There are a group of Conspiracists in D.C. currently who are predicting the May 21st end of the world.
Have any inside information on this? With such omniscience of Osama's demise, this would be a snap.
Elaine
I would appreciate it if someone would help me by summarizing in one declarative sentence the thesis of this artilce. Thank you!
Hard to make sense of it without mentioning the root problem - L-I-E-S.
Reading a 1915 book by early Pentecostal leader Samuel Booth-Clibborn, Should a Christian Fight? The short introduction differentiates between pacifist, socialist and Christian responses to the question of engaging in WWI. Interesting to see how definitions change over time, and how different students of the Bible come to different conclusions regarding faithful discipleship. (Not pertinent for the above article, but if you want to know his mind, he basically says pacifists and socialists failed to prevent the war, but the Christian should still not fight it.)
Were you asleep for the last 10 years? OBL was not just a loud-mouthed idealogue. He had declared war against the United States and was always seeking ways to wreak havoc on America and Americans. He was not assassinated. He was hunted just as any criminal was hunted. Anyone who suggests that he should have been left to his nefarious devices is out of touch with reality. Where do you get the idea that Obama despised bin Laden?
One Race, Indivisible.
Extremely powerful governments and military are often considered legitimate in pursuing violence against others, and having justifiable reasons. Those who oppose them are always considered rebels and terrorists and thus deligitimised. Yet governments and militaries that do horrendous things under the pretext of being justified (and shown to be wrong about that) should also considered to be terrorists and rebels against humanity. They too should be condemned, brought to justice and held accountable.
Thank you for this essay. It will sound harsh to many, yet it has redeeming qualities, especially coming from the US rather than Europe, where the general evaluation of events would be similar to those of Keith Burton. Despite all practicalities and reality (good idea to separate church and state) we need to be able to ask theologically:
Whatever happened to "the other cheek", whatever happened to "turning swords into ploughs", whatever happened to "the revenge is mine, says the Lord" or "not by might, not by power, but by my Spirit" ?
And NO!!! The "mind of Christ" (Phil 2:5) does not condone evil. On the contrary! Overcoming evil with good is the ultimate opposition to evil.... Whatever has happened to the gospel?
The President is not halfway through his Presidency, as you suggested. He is barely five months past the half way point of his first term.
I, for one, look forward to a spirited campaign and reelecting the President in 2012 to serve out another term.
Visit me at giovannihashimoto.com
Here is the spirit of Jesus in action in a profound way. Has more to say that much of the vindictive rhetoric that is far too common. Highly recommended:
http://www.ted.com/talks/9_11_healing_the_mothers_who_found_forgiveness_...
S Styrra, thanks for sharing their story. The personal nature of their experience reminds me of relationships in the films The Power of Forgiveness and Encounter Point. Also the section "The Scandal of Grace" in The Irresistible Revolution (Claiborne, pp. 260-266).
And just to cut one rebuttal short, let me emphasize that I am talking about personal relationships and their upward effects, not top-down ethics of empire and societal enforcement of its concept of justice (locally or internationally). I'm not saying they're unrelated, I just don't want to hear, "Don't make universal forgiveness our domestic and foreign policy." We can have a better conversation than that. Let the stories in this one comment stand as a powerful witness for Christians without thinking I mean everyone should be let out of prison and no more people should be prosecuted.
On a different topic, does anyone know if Adventists have been involved in the conversations about selective conscientious objection, which is required by Christians who hold to just war theory? I've had non-SDA colleagues attend conferences on the topic, but I'm not sure if we're involved or not. Sorry if this issue is too far off-topic, a distraction.
There is always a tension between the "ideal" and the reality of the "real". Unfortunately the "ideal" will never be reached again short of heaven. We all seek the "ideal" in our lives here and hopefully eternally. Keith speaks from his version of "ideal" but is only allowed to speak like this in this country because "real" men and women have died to defend his right for "free speech" !! I hope he is "real" enough to be thankful for that privilege!!
Hopefully the "ideal" will return soon and become the "real" for us all !! In the meantime "talk is cheap"!! The privilege isn't !!!!!!
All the best to you all this Mother's Day!!
Fred
Thank you, Keith, for such a concise, well-written column. I’ve lived in this country for 18 or so years, a country built under the so-called motto In God We Trust and the forlorn hope God Bless America, yet I’m always befuddled by the American’s vindictive mentality––that which seems to tacitly advance the foolish notion that vengeance is laudatory so long as it’s wreaked to revitalize the face of the American nation. Even Christians, who should know better, have been shoehorned into this American quivering stupor that equates justice with vengeance. I’ve seen hordes of Christians running amok over Bin Laden’s death, some, whom I’ve heard myself, even wished for his head on a silver platter delivered to the president. One guy––a close relative of mine, a devout church deacon whose giddy action I’m not reluctant to scowl––rushed outside his home last Sunday night, unfurling and hoisting his American flag to revel over Bin Laden’s death. Yes, if nothing else unifies Christians with the rest of the world, vengeance does.
The author says: “I know there is absolutely nothing that the United States can do to eradicate global evil.”
I think it is sad that anybody believes that US (the US government) want to eradicate “global evil”. Is there another entity in the world that is more responsible for “global evil” than that government?
In order not to be deceived by them, let's remember Christ's warning:
“...to deceive, if possible, even the elect” (Mat. 24:24).
In reality, is there really any difference between a Christian and an ethical, Geneva-Convention-following non-believer when it comes to the treatment of enemies. Of those who pose a threat to us or our way of life? Should there be?
What would happen to our world if Christians actually lived non-violently? It seems to me that most believe evil would overrun good which suggests that most do not believe that God would intervene in that.
Is it up to us then to protect what is good - by any means necessary? What is God's role in any of this or is it just naive to think God has one?
Fred said:
"Keith speaks from his version of "ideal" but is only allowed to speak like this in this country because "real" men and women have died to defend his right for "free speech" !! "
Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that he can speak because real men and women have killed to defend his right for free speech? Let's face it - it wasn't the dying on our soldiers' part that made our country free, it was the fact that our soldiers were and are better at killing. Dying is a rotten war strategy but it sounds more noble than killing for sure.
Beth
In the American Revolution it wasn't our overwhelming superiority in numbers and equipment but a superior motivation to fight that won out. The motivation was freedom for religion, freedom from unjust taxation, freedom of speech... unalienable rights as the founding fathers stated. The history of the USA is replete with fights over rights i.e. the Civil War etc. The World Wars I & II were not wars of our making but we have also had some less than "admirable" motivations at times. The current war on "terrorism" is not one we chose to fight but was one we had to fight probably through our lifetimes because of ideology that motivates a hatred of "western civilization" and the very rights you and I have on these threads to discuss ideas. I lost a classmate and friend on 9/11 in the WTC so it is "real personal" for me. If we lived in a world that was "Christ driven" or "more ideal" we would have alot better chance of avoiding these conflicts but unfortunately we don't.
While I agree we should be "peace loving people" and promote "love and universal peace" you and I both know that is "unattainable" short of heaven. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try but we need to understand some diseases are "incurable" and act judiciously with that "real" understanding. I choose to try and heal people as that seems to me to be Christ's calling but some are "incurable" no matter how hard we try!!
Osama was serving his concept of "God" when he killed thousands. Our government is protecting the "world" from the tyranny of people like Hitler or Osama Bin Laden. There is a BIG difference IMHO
All the best
Fred
PS I don't believe we should "revel over" Osama's death but I doubt we will see him as a neighbor in heaven.... I could be wrong.
Patton said it best:
"Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. You won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
And that's reality in the history of planet earth.
And why Spectrum exists.
I respect people who, on religious or moral grounds, refuse to bar arms for any reason at any time.
I'm also glad they are not the majority.
i deeply admire President Obama for his deterination to find UBL and sending in the Seals to terminate this mass killer''s life. I have no problem with people cheering around the White House and singing the Star Spangled Banner. I wish I could have been there to share their joy that this monster is dead and gone.
We like to think our choices are between good vs evil. Sone choices are between worse and worser, like abortion. In 65 years of living, I'm still waiting to meet the person who is "pro-abortion.". There's no such animal. People choose/reject abortion for worse or worser reasons.
Without losing our idealism, most of us live in this real earthy world where God's hands are our own. We can duck & dodge, but the world cannot tolerate the continued existance of a mass murderer like UBL or those who want to pick up his torch.
Had he been captured, rather than executed on the spot, can you imagine the number of Americans around the world who would be kidnapped, tortured and killed? It's not a pretty picture to contemplate.
Nevertheless, I still sign off with the hope of...
Shalom!
Jeris E. Bragaqn
Charles
A good movie line. But most of the Congressional Metal of Honor members of the armed forces, died for their country. I seriously doubt if any or many of the blustery words on this post have come from men or women who have tasted war or armed conflict up close and personal. Flag wavers are all very brave. Tom Z.
Tom
While I was lucky enough to pass through the draft lottery #185 and the draft went up to about #150 in my time, many in my family have served in the military over generations. My father served in the Pacific in WW II as a surgeon/physician as the US "island hopped" on their way to Japan. My grandfather C R Hyatt graduated from the Naval Academy, fought in WW I went around the world with the "Great White Fleet", commanded the Naval forces in the Panama Canal Zone, taught at the Naval Academy in Annapolis for many yrs. his last command before he retired was the USS Arizona and he would have been in command at Pearl Harbor (instead of Admiral Kimmel) had he not died of a pulmonary embolism shortly before WW II. He is buried in Arlington with my grandmother. My cousin was killed when a bomb hit his ship where he was doing surgery on a wounded soldier. My grandfathers brother taught at West Point where one of his pupils was General Marshall of WW II fame. My families history going back to the Civil War involved those who fought for both North and South some of whom you may have heard of in your high school history. Many others who have served this country faithfully in other conflicts.
I have taken care of so many "knife and gun club" urban combat victims and many veterans from my time in Washington DC and the Jerry Pettis VA that I am acquainted with the ravages of war so to speak.
What bothers me is the attitude that the "military" are "soul less" hardened killers who are out for "war" and they just enjoy "killing" and general "mayhem". This in general is a gross misrepresentation by people who are misinformed or willfully ignorant.
My grandfather hated war but he knew that it was necessary at times to allow peace to be possible for the rest of us. His slogan of "walk softly but carry a BIG STICK" was what he knew was necessary for survival of our way of existance as a free country with freedoms that people take for granted. These freedoms are not cheap and are not just because we are better "killers"!! They have come from men and women who understood tyranny for what it was and stood up against it to our worlds benefit. Many who write on this forum(like Keith) talk a great game but are clueless about the world we live in at times. He and many others here should be thankful that men like my family members (and you) answered the call to duty for this country in the time of need. As I said earlier "talk is cheap but freedom isn't" !!!!!!
I pray for the day when Christ returns and peace will again reign eternal but until then I give thanks for those willing to risk their lives for this country !!!
Fred
http://www.thepangeablog.com/2011/05/06/n-t-wright-rightly-reflects-on-t...
Here is a good link that expresses my view on the tactic that was used; a tactic that would have the Americans in shock and extremely upset if it was done in their country.
So Jeris, you said you were glad there are few objectors. What do you think would happen if more people were objectors? Do you think that evil would flourish more than it is already? If so, do you think it is up to us to deal with evil - violently if necessary? And how would a world in which it is up to us to deal violently with current evil be any different from a world that doesn't have a God in charge? Is God hands off when it comes to evil until the second coming - leaving it up to us?
See it comes down to this in my mind. Is there a God who will deal with current evil if we don't deal with it violently? Or do we act as if it is up to us, thereby using the exact same methods as an ethical person who does not think there is a God in charge of the world? (Which, if God really is that hands off, would be closer to the truth at least until the second coming.)
It seems to me that most Christians think it is naive to believe that God will intervene against evil if we don't use violence. They are afraid that God won't do anything. Or they think that it is God's will for us to use violence (which again doesn't make them any different in behavior to an ethical non-believer.) Either way, they don't really believe that God calls us to something more - or maybe I should say that they don't act like God calls us to something more. They might believe that there is a God in charge of the world but then they act like there isn't.
Since I have more in common with the ethical non-believer at this point then with most Christians, I'm not judging that. I'm just wondering about it.
The greatest conspiracy theory in the last 20 years Elaine, is undoubtedly the twin towers free falling in on their own footprint and magical boxcutting muslims who could barely pass a cesna test, yet with precision could fly jumbo jets into their intended targets, all the while orchestrated against the most technologically advanced military and defense system on the planet by the boogeyman (OBL) in a cave half way around the world...fantasy, indeed!
In WWII medics in the South Pacific were trained with the carbine. It was impossible to treat a wounded man and protect oneself with a carbine. I chose to do my work without arms. It was not unusual to have three medics wounded while attempting to treat a downed G.I.
I got a lot of razzing until the real fighting started. Then it was Tom, you go first, your not afraid, we'll cover you! By the end of the war, my C.O. and I were one point short of returning to the States. We were sent to Korea to disarm the Japanese and restore civilian government. My C.O. would on occasion call me--now a three striper with a rocker, "Tom, I've had it! I have to put one one. You are now in charge--I know you can handle things until I get sober again. Thanks Tom, I owe you one."
The SDA view today is to the right of Draft Dodging Cheney. I carried five bronze battle stars and three bronze arrow heads that indicated three assault landings. I have treated wounded Japanese the same as wounded Americans, although my first priority were the Americans.
I make no judgment on those that carried the fight to the enemy. I have a total revulsion against those who are all talk, sit in the bleachers and yell "kill the S.O. B.'s"
If I were called again, I would do what I know best, how to heal. I would again do it in harms way.
Tom Z
Beth
I believe that God raises leaders and nations and uses ethical non believers as well as ethical believers to keep evil "in check" as He attempts to further His calling among those who are receptive to His calling to a higher mission. Unfortunately evil still has great sway in the world we live in. I hope that will change soon but it will happen in God's time. God ultimately will make things "right" again, I believe, but until then He works through us at times.
Political "correctness" aside, there is such a thing as truly "evil" in this world and I believe we need to stand against it as best we can until God ultimately wipes it away. That may mean different roles for different people but identifying evil for what it is, is still necessary IMHO
All the best to you and Happy Mother's Day!!
Fred
oops link wouldn't go up
Tom ... appreciate your last thoughts.
Tom, I echo Bill's comment. I knew another WWII medic who "healed in harm's way." His pacifism was anything but passive. I was there for his graveside service on 9/11 as the Twin Towers fell on the opposite side of the country. He was my Dad.
Hi, Beth:
I didn't say I would prefer fewer objectors; only not the majority,
You ask some thorny questions, which I freely admit I feel conflicted about.
I can't help thinking of the pious Jews who refused to try to escape from the advancing Nazi's. Their faith was solid as a rock. They were convinced God would save them from the death chambers. He didn't! He didn't protect the Cambodians. I could make a long list.
I don't pretend to know the Mind of God anymore. I'm confident He wills peace, grace, forgiveness and general good for all people everywhere. Beyond that, to be brutally honest, I'm only guessing, following where the Spirit leads--and only occasionally confident that I'm actually following the Spirit instead of some inclination of my own.
I guess I'm thinking along the lines suggested by Dr. Eastman: confident that God will do what S/he wants and frequently, it appears, does this work through people like Tom in his way and my father in his as a combatant in WWII.
I doubt the above answers your question as elegantly as you framed it.
Tom, I agree with your comment about the draft-dodging hot shots yelling from the sidelines, and I appreciate your service. Did you ever feel conflicted/doubt about your position as a non-combatant?
Shalom!
Jeris E. Bragan
Jeris
Yes, in training. But not in action. Once in place, I knew I had chosen well. I took a lot of heat and razzing at first. But not after our first action. When the rubber hit the road, they all wanted to be near me.==One said, I want to be close to you. The Lord is protecting you, I want to be close by.
When a new commanding general reviewed our unit and found me without a carbine, he really chewed me out. My C.O. stood behind him and kept winking at me to keep my courage up. He knew my history in combat. Yellow was not part of my nature. Even reading my Bible didn't bring hoots anymore. Of course taking an English lit course by coorespondence was always a good joke. It was the best thing i ever did. Shakespeare and Kipling were my favorites. Try reading Kipling in a tent with a one candle power light in a jungle full of noise at night. You really get to know the man.
I stuck with the Psalms, the stories of Daniel, David, the Book of Acts, the Gospel of John and the first seven chapters of Romans. On ship at night, I would stand fire guard near a heat vent and shout poetry to the wind and the waves. I would take off one part of my uniform, tie a line through a leg or sleeve and throw it overboard and let is splash for about 15 min. and the haul it in and tie it on to the vent. As soon as it was dry, I would put it on and do the second half of my uniform. I had the cleanest uniform in the entire company. Of sixteen months overseas, I spent 90 days in heavy combat. Fifteen days with air raids on our convoys. Those days seemed like years. One nervous Nellie dropped a 500 lb bomb on our skip--only to miss by 100 feet--I just got wet. he then dived into a jeep carrier next to us killing 69 men and sending the ship back for repairs.
We were a very quiet ship after that. It took all the big talk out of the lot. Going ashore on our first assault, a major just five feet tall stood next to me and another six footer and said: fellows--we may hit a sand bar and then jump off into deep water, if we do, let me be between to two guys. If I go under, please pull me up. We of course agreeded. As the ramp went down and we were the first off the ramp into 5 feet 10 inches of water, No major, we reached down and each grabbed a shoulder and pulled him up. He sputtered and said: "Thanks fellows!." we carried he until he said,"I can touch sand now guys, thanks again." This time the Japs had set up their defenses three miles inland and we walked ashore like at any beach in tropical Florida. The next day the action began and didn't let up for thirty days when the First Calvary Div took our place at the front. During that thirty days we lost all but 400 men in one of our three regiments through deaths, wounds, and jungle illnesses.
Just a small dose of why, I have a minimum high regard for loud mouths. Tom Z.
Jeris,
Thanks for your thought-filled reply. I find these things really complicated and I am a long way from any resolution.
Beth,
Wouldn't it be wonderful if believers and non-believers stood up to evil non-violently - call evil by its right name and held all leaders accountable for their violent actions.
For generations old men have sent young men out to fight their wars. I was young in the 1960's and I thrilled to hear my generation say "it is enough - killing isn't the answer" There was a saying back then - "what if 'they' threw a war and no one came".
Sadam Hussain and ben Ladin were trained and supported by the USA and were OK as long as they were in our pocket... but as Jesus said, he who lives by the sword will die by the sword.
Tom
After my Dad died in 2003 I went through alot of the 16mm movies he had taken over his lifetime. I found a fairly large collection of movies he had taken in the Pacific battle zone. Some were from Saipan and Iwo Jima. I have put them on DVD along with many family and travel movies that I cherish.
Beth
I always appreciate your thoughtful questions. As Jeris has said these are complicated issues and people need to be open to widely individual answers. I agree with Tom who abhors the hypocrisy of the Monday morning quarterbacks so to speak.
One of the most interesting things to "talk over with God" will be His interventions in history and why or why not He did or didn't intervene, many times at great cost to His reputation so to speak.
Have a great week everyone!!
Fred
Why bring God into the discussion? Leave Him out of it, for in the long run we always decide on our own convictions, and then attribute them to God's desires. If He didn't start these wars, why should He have us take a position? If we believe the Bible, He was very actively invovled in many of the wars the Israelites fought. Saying "God is on our side" and praying for God to bless one side, is blasphemy unless He has given humans the omniscience to determine what His will is, which is "playing God."
Elaine
Fred,
Your gentle posts are a blessing to this board.
..."a world where evil is overcome by force is not a world I wish to inhabit"...
should we just adjust to living in a world where evil rules?
where there's a will and a heavy counterbalance, there's a way.
http://www.wimp.com/mastbridge/
It's interesting that you bring up this point Kregg. I have been a fan of history for years, and have been trying to look into the stance of the SDA Church to Hitler's government. From what I've been able to find, it's not a picture we should be proud of. Where we should have been leading the way, we were sadly lagging.
Beth
Thank you. I take that as a great compliment from you !!
Fred
:>) !!
..."a world where evil is overcome by force is not a world I wish to inhabit"...
If evil is to be overcome, is there another solution than forces? Gentile persuasion??
Does anyone have a choice? We either leave this world by death or translation, whichever comes first.
Such a pessimistic attitude makes self the center stage. What about the millions whose entire life is surrounded by evil: poverty, malnutrition, slavery, high infant and maternal mortality?
Those are the conditions which nearly half the world experiences. To be so anxious to leave a world where there is an extreme contrast with the first and third world countries should aid in producing compassion rather than selfishly wanting to escape all. Whether "It is the best of times, the worst of times" depend on one's attitude.
Elaine
Whether "It is the best of times, the worst of times" depend on one's attitude.
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The conditions which one lives under contributes as well.
Frank
yes its true thanks..
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